A different way to write songs for TV & film
October 6, 2024
As songwriters, we often follow a formula when we write songs.
Here is another way to do it that can lead to more inspired music for TV & film.
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Thank you for your good advice. āSurpriseā chords is what I like to try (I write for pleasure)
My son-in-law is a pro singer/songwriter and he has written and demoād / released a perfect song for āSons of Anarchyā but the trick is getting it heard by a supervisor.
Glad you liked it, Ian. Yes, the challenge is getting your music heard by a music supervisor and that’s where I come in. š
A good song has multiple Changes, not necessarily key changes, but rhythm& chord changes – I like where your going Chris ,when you wanna make it interesting …
š
Most of the time, a lyric and melody will come to me first, and then I will build the song from there. Occasionally, I’ll think of only a cool melody or baseline, and that will be the song’s core. I’m mainly a pop artist, so most of my songs follow traditional chord progressions, but there have been a few times where I have intentionally tried to mix it up so that all my songs don’t sound the same, haha. I definitely need to do that more, so thanks for the reminder!
Great to hear, Lavender!
Man, with all due respect, authenticity and tailoring your music by means of hearing to a group are absolutely contradicting ideas! Iām joining the discussion because this is not a good idea. Iāve written over 80 tunes for TV, scored for theatre, had placements with Apple, BOSE and I tell you: do not have a group telling you what they think or you will never ever reach YOUR authenticity! Listen to great music instead in order to get inspired! Watch movies, listen to the soundtracks!
The only time you should take a different route is if you are working with a briefing and references that the client is desiring.
If you will listen to someoneās opinion, choose wisely and never widely!
Franco, you are kind of using great music and soundtracks as your guide, just like a vetting group. This is what I am really getting at. The trick is not to produce by committee, but listen to the most consistent advice. If we don’t have three other Beatles in the band and a producer to tell us what’s working or not, we can still put together a vetting group to give us their vote while still retaining our authenticity.
All really good ideas, and great ways to find the exit from traditional boxes.
I tend to use much more elaborate, jazz type chords during bridges, which is rather signature to my style. I recently did some live guitar work for a gentleman named JD Hicks. Jd is a wonderful singer-songwriter, and he is quite adept at using substitutions to break up what might otherwise be stagnant cord patterns. It’s subtle, but keeps things really interesting.
It’s the wonderful thing about what we do – coming up with, or watching others dream up things that would never come to our own minds, naturally. Once you think there is a "way" to do things, someone shows you an incredibly innovative perspective and alternative. What could be better?!!!
For sure, Scott!
I compose that way all the time. I can’t write to spec. Some of the songs Supervisors get most excited about are the really different ones (what I call "weird"). The toughest part is that briefs are often looking for specific replacement tracks (even down to the bpms) and it’s hard to tailor a playlist for a specific supervisor. I don’t even try anymore. I just give them the songs I love the most. It has been working well for me – lots of excitement, lots of "I’m going to pitch that for this," but no syncs yet. I remain hopeful. At the end of the day, I have songs I am proud of, regardless of where they may be used.
I don’t get many briefs that are looking for a specific replacement track down to the bpm from the supervisors I work with. That said, I like the last bit about you write songs you are proud of.
Hi Chris- thanks for the surprise pop up video. Always up for a new perspective. Hope you are enjoying France. I love Paris and was there just a couple of weeks ago. I write to melodies, mostly. Sometimes I write to lyrics and I do like to write to assignment as well. It’s a great thing to be able to write songs and play them. Thanks again for your
inspiration. Hope to hear th end result!
Timothy Madigan
Thanks Timothy. I was actually on a canal boat in the video in Burgundy. France is indeed amazing!
When I create songs, many times I like to reverse engineer them. Unlike. following a recipe while cooking, I put all the ingredients at once, and then I extract them as needed until I find the right recipe for the song. I take away instead of adding ingredients to my liking.
I also listen to the tracks on different speakers, different headphones, in the car, on my phone, and on my laptop so I can hear what it sounds like to different people.
I also like to write down song title ideas from those "that’d be a great song title" moments. I must have 100+ title ideas. Better get to work!
I like it!
This is an interesting topic. I typically top line a song with nothing beneath it. I feed ideas into the "computer" until the computer (my mind) gets so sick of it it seems to say "no you idiot, it’s like this!". It is a very strange process and I don’t necessarily recommend it, but that’s what I do.
Haha, cool process!
Music definitely can take different paths for sure. Lyrical and melodic idea are born in life moments. Sometimes when expected sometimes when just letting inspiration flow. No right or wrong way just let it happen. This is when creativity brings light.
Nice, Jim!
I don’t think of it as a song at the beginning. I think of a story I want to tell or more likely it hits me in the face. I hear something, a phrase for example and I write it down (I have 30+ pages of thoughts). I read a quote by Abraham Lincoln, I paraphrased it and it became the chorus of a new song. I didn’t know how I’d use it but then it came about and I started writing verse. I might have written the third verse first. It wasn’t until I had the story pretty much told that I started messing around with the chords and melody. I look at the mood of the story and then try to elicit that feeling through the chords. If the mood changes throughout the story the chord pattern changes. The actual melody comes last and if I’m lucky it flows. I have come up with chord patterns but then get stuck on a melody…and lyrics to fit are impossible…at least for me.
That’s really cool, Dave. I take the opposite approach, but as long as we end up with a great song in the end is all that matters.
Well said Chris. I have done lots of songwriting study – several units at Berklee, NSAI and so forth, so its put me in a position where I have a reasonably broad knowledge base about the process and have been asked to, and ended up teaching the ‘formal’ aspect of songwriting to emerging wannabe songwriters and artists through various workshops and schools … BUT, more often than not, I don’t practice what I preach.
I start much like you just spoke about and then use my ‘learned’ stuff to tweak and clean up the idea – making it more accessible to others so they can relate.
It’s a process that take much longer than the three hour co-write sessions that Nashville is so known for, but I feel it is much more reflective of me as a writer.
That’s why I am not so comfortable submitting what I consider ‘works in progress’ to the song challenges in Sync Club, because I can sit on a song for weeks and then revisit and tweak several times before satisfied. (Yet, I still do submit).
Hugh Prestwood, one of my NSAI mentors who sadly passed away a week or so ago, inspired me to write like that.
I feel within the songwriting process, there are three aspects – the commerciality – Ralph Murphy was a great teacher of that aspect … then there is the formality/structure of the song – teachers like Rick Beresford, Pat Pattison, Andrea Stolpe are excellent at that and then there is the heart or soul of the song – which Hugh was so wonderful at making sure was kept alive. I believe that it what gives the song authenticity.
I do have a vetting group, but its very small at the moment and I rarely present my work until it’s almost done. I need to work on that.
Love that, Connie. Thanks for sharing your methodology.
I’ve experienced different approaches to composing different songs; sometimes it is driven by some lyrics I have in mind. However, I often start exactly the way you described; that is, pursuing melodies and harmonies that spark a feeling; not concerned with traditional structure or progressions. I then continue down that creative stream. I then let it simmer a bit, return to it and "re-listen". which precipitates new ideas and driections.
š
I do exactly what you suggest. Kitchen sink of everything then keep editing, editing, editing. I create a table with side-by-side options. Ultimate, I have several vetting groups. 1. Songwriters/musicians 2. Friends/family . 3. Facebook friends. I create ANOTHER table then compile every comment as footnotes to each phrase or word. Then analyze and compare. Edit edit edit. Rinse and repeat however times necessary to the vetting groups. Iāve done this for years. Itās a lot of work (and time) but Iām always personally satisfied with the result. Rarely any regrets from the writing standpoint.
The work obviously pays off, Denise. Keep rinsing and repeating if it’s working.
Well Thanks Chris For This Video,I Have Learned A Lot & I’ll Follow These Speps From Now On I Salute You…….
Great to hear and thanks for the kind words, Nkosana.
Good advice, Chris…. I find myself listening for the "happy accidents" that happen during the process – a finger lands in the wrong place, or the "what ifs" that suggest themselves throughout. Some really cool stuff happens when it’s not in the original plan – just have to be open to hearing and working with it and as you said, travel the rocky road.
I find, like you, if I come up with a lot of ideas and not throw anything away at the beginning, there’s lots to work with to mix and match to craft the finished song.
This Video was nice to hear Chris, I have many of the same ideas , as most cords , have been put.together in those famous progressions. However , I like stepping out of the zone ,,, and do work backwards. To a pattern, or look at the song 2 weeks later only to find it’s half finished
Cheers
Excellent video. Very well done and informative.
Hi Chris,
I feel so bad for you having to hang out in France!
I enjoyed your take on song writing.
Your exactly right, take chances and explore when writing.
Enjoy,
Paul
I like the idea of t he ārocky roadā approach. Often, a quirky phrase , or one taken out of context can suggest a mood or even a rhythm from which a musical phrase may suggest itself. āRocky Roadā is a god example. Ricky road to where? For whom? Why is it Rocky? Whatās the story. This means you start with the words not a chord or chord sequence. You explore the context which suggests the mood which suggests in turn, possible tempo and rhythm; from which a chord sequence might emerge worth exploring. Or vice versa. Rocky Road might also apply to an instrument. Ever written a song on drums? Or a harmonium.? Or used a mandolin to pick out a line or an open- stringed 8 string ukelele. The effect on a nascent song can be electric. All Iām saying is that your āRocky Roadā can take a number of different guises if youāre happy to experiment.
Good tips Chris thank you šš» š
This is brilliant! Thanks a lot. š
i myself mostly go chorus first, build around it and later revaluate wether the chorus can be turned into a verse, requirting a new chorus. This way, it is sort of a ping pong approach between the different parts of the song, with a very stripped down instrumentation. Once i feel i am inspired enough to add the bells and whistles, i follow the bare-boned structure i created to add ear candy, full instrumentation etc. If i am confronted with a blank page while still wanting to strt from scratch, i like to use the 7-step song planner by the songwriting academy (TSA) – you can google it. š
The song has a life (spirit) of its own. My job is to get out of the way of this spirit. I try to become a conduit. If I am successful then it will speak to me. Every word, every note, every breath is alive and waiting to come into THIS reality. What the song really is exists fully and completely. I just need to listen get out of the way. It will speak through me if I listen.
Ears open at all times, because discovery is infinite. Instincts for completion gradually kick in, and narrow things down because the best ideas need to breathe freely in a track. Thatās my process, darn near close to yours. It requires a combination of experience for options and gut instinct for decisions.
Nice!
Building a new song? Or just finding it? For me there is no single path. Sometimes Iām sleeping and I find a song, based on a melody and some lyrics (that I later transcribed to a piano). Other times, Iām just playing – maybe chaotically – a guitar (normally acoustic) and something takes my attention, which can form the basis for some verses, or chorus, or intros,ā¦ Most of the time I will never know where the sounds will take me, but I recognize when Iām near something more āfinalā. And a music for me is like a romance, a story; sometimes is very quick to disclose, other times it takes a long time to mature (I had songs done in around 10m and others that Iām still refining for more than 20 years). And even if Iām aware that most of my stuff is within a certain āstyleā, I search to have as much of a variety as possible in their base structure (arrangement, ways of strumming, intonation, etc.). Music is a kind of an open universe and will never be subsumed to any particular rules or social goals, at least in my personal view.
I like your idea of music being an open universe, Jorge. Great approach.
Hi Chriss!
Thanks for your idea.
Actually thats the way I’ve almost always been righting my songs š
When I dont the tend to be very predictable and boring.
š
Firstly, thank you for forwarding this video. I really enjoy them and I do miss "class" – so nice of you to check in.
I play most days in 5 hours increments.
Usually I’m on the looper just making decisions. I erase everything as I go.
Oh a few minutes to thirty. Then gone.
I use that multiple level noodling to decide. I don’t always know what I’m deciding. Often the decision is to lose that crap. But the exercise gives me a chance to try all the instruments. If I just loop the bass and guitar on a given momentary invention say, then I can practice or play or compose ta part on the Wurli or the drum beat or the violin which I’ve been attempting this last year or the guitar synth and Anything.
I get to control the jam in that way.
THEN, after dozens of "tries" I may have something to present to others.
Live combo is the thing for me.
I present these ideas to other players, give them my filtered down concepts, lines, even written music sure depending on who I’m presenting that to and what it is.
That tension of them NOT meeting my Expectation but making it their own, many times not even considering my ideas – that is the sound I want. That frustration and that extreme joy at what THEY play. It’s the ‘list in translation ‘ method I think.
Often lyrics have popped out freestyle during that early process. But sometimes yes I’ve written lyrics ahead and I’m matching them to progressions. I wrote lyrics during that Kyle/Matt video for sync club.
Kyle said something that stuck in my ear. In an answer to Matt as to WHEN this music would be needed or WHAT kind of music, Kyle said
"EVERYTHING, EVENTUALLY"
It’s Whitney Houston or Aretha sounding. I think I found a voice for it the other night. Just figuring out how to pay that person to do that.
Your course has taught me to step Way Way outside of the Strumming first position, where should this go mathematically school of songwriting.
Maybe listening to every one else in that course has. But definitely Definitely that course has sent me More into The way Way Outs artistically.
Thank you Chris. Enjoy France.
My grandparents were French.
Vuillequez. Basque but lived in Brittany.
Bardet. Swiss but the village name escapes me just now.
THAT FACT, that you’ve told us you’re in France, REALLY made my day as much as you just emailing.
Very interesting approach. You almost take the method I used and 10X ‘d it. Yes love France and had a great time on that canal boat as we cruised through Burgundy.
Thanks for sharing this, Chris. You have to remain open to the muse because you never know where the next inspiration will come from. Could be that the whine of the garbage truck outside makes you try to recreate that sound on your guitar. Or a bouquet of fresh flowers makes you want to uncover the sound of "violet". Take a walk in the woods or sit for a meditation session to clear your mind and make room for that snip of a melody or a few words and you’re off again into the land of discovery.
Love that, Tom. Inspiration from wherever it comes.
Thanks for the great input Chris! I got very excited when I saw your headline of another way to write. I seem to always be experimenting, a chord progreassion I like, then change the strumming to get a different feel, beat. Sometimes I get stuck and I go to the piano (can barely play) but that instrument can offer alternatives I didn’t think of with my guitar, then I go back to the guitar or voice to catch that melody. As far as ideas go, I have two apps on my phone, one to record melodies (that pop out of no where) and one for phases. What I lack in is a good vetting group. I use my family & friends but only one is an season musician. I need to work on that! It’s certainly a process, and everyone has their opinion on how the structure should be. I heard a professional says once, if the song moves you, it will move someone else also.
I think your last line is key and to add to that, don’t try and please everyone. There are plenty of others who will love what you do.
Hey there Chris, the brain-storming when writing a song can be so rewarding. I’ve come up with 3 or 4 other ideas for songs by doing that.
I understand what you’re saying about feedback and waiting until it’s ready. I’ve been working all summer on my album, tweaking it everytime I heard something I didn’t like.
I just had it reviewed by one of my mentors, and they were rather impressed, but also pointed out some things I missed, so I can fix it before it’s released.
Be blessed and have fun in France!
Great to hear, Jeff! I am a big fan of getting feedback on things. The thing is I think the most important part is to not just listen to one source but many so you can detect a pattern in there. Otherwise the song ends up being written by committee. Best of luck!
Salut Chris alors tu es en Bourgogne, Ć§Ć va ? Ca se passe bien ? J’espĆØre que tu as beau temps.
To answer your question, i generally start with the Melody and the chord progressions. And i come back several times on them. Sometimes i also have the lyrical book that fils the Melody, but lyrics are the last things. I use some technics and helps from masterwriter for ex, and i read other lyrics. I also try to Pay attention to the phrasing , and as a non native English speaker this is not the easiest part. i don’t consider myself as the best lyricist but i try to put some words that are consistent enough.
i generally separate the songwriting and the production. I often hear about the sound, authenticitĆ© of the sound , but this is nothing if you don’t have a great song first, not especially the best lyrics or the best Melody, but lyrics and Melody that match together . A rule that i learnt with Martin Sutton’s Academy.
Then comes the production and i generally come back several times on it, and the mix and mastering are the last part of the process and maybe the longest ones.
Hope i answered correctly .
Great to hear, Manu. I really like the thoughtfulness in your method. Yes, I had a great time in Burgundy!
Hi Chris, thankyou so much for taking the time to post this video, hope you are enjoying France!
I totally agree with your idea of not following such a strict formula when writing music… As Ron Friedland said previously there are
‘happy accidents’ when composing. It’s the same with visual art.
I am studying the concept of deconstruction in orchestration at the moment… There is a certain pattern that has been used over and over in writing music… Direction (The melody), Movement (what carries the melody along), and Background ( Basic chords or Triads in the base).
I have only learnt this for the first time!
There is definitely a case for going ‘off the beaten track’ as you say when writing music though. I will hopefully keep it in mind.
Thanks again!
Great to hear, Roisin.
Hey Chris, I love what you just said. My Mentor was Jimmy Webb, and he preached just the opposite. "THAT" Has gotten me no where. In a last ditch effort, I will try your advice.
Thanks Brother.
Scott.
Haha, well give it a shot and let me know how it works out.
Hi Chris,
I like your ideas… they remind me of Steven Pressfield’s closing statement in his book, ‘Do the Work’:
"Stay stupid. Trust the soup…"
You gotta try the crazy new ideas and see where they go before editing it together and test-driving a song with your vetting group.
Thanks,
Alex Kydd
š
Hey Chris,
I like it!
. Thatās pretty much my writing path for every song I do. I go into the weed, where Iām just inspired and not concerned with what anyone might thinkā¦and eventually keep the stuff that shines (in my mind, anyway). But I will say that Iām not very good at letting peers hear it until Iām finishedā¦I like that idea am starting to write with othersā¦and getting more outside feedbackā¦
Much appreciated!
As long as you let some others hear it before you release it, that is what counts.
Hi, I don’t sit down to try to compose usually either a tune comes into my head when I’m just wandering around the house or at work and luckily I can record snippets. I do then try to work out the chords required for that tune which sometimes are just the standard progressions but I tend to develop tunes that have some different progressions to be more unique as you say. The most recent one I’ve done uses a bit of chromatics where the F# in D changes to F natural in F so it ends up D F G. I compose on keyboard and with playing with guitarists a bit have now utilised minor 7th chords, maj 7th etc which add a bit of colour to plain progressions. In one tune its the basic CFG progression until the chorus which goes from F to Db to C. So overall the tune starts it off but I mainly work with chord progressions.
Interesting. Thanks for sharing, Rhys.
I have no clear idea as to what you are saying here, sorry! An example would probably be helpful to cut through the confusion. Best to get a genesis of the song in question (the one you referred to). Maybe when it is done, you can make a video explaining this.
Also, how long can you keep vetting?! As much of a perfectionist as I know I am, and as much as I find myself guilty of procrastinating and delaying finishing a song, I wonder if I will ever finish one if you have to ask others all the time.
Thank you!
Error connection (typo on last sentence): …if ‘I’ (not ‘you’) have to ask others…
Hi Ban, the simplest way to put it is to ignore the idea of a genesis of a song, and focus more on the genesis of nice sounds. Collect and impressionistic pallet of sounds first and then try to wrangle them into the genesis of a song. Hopefully that makes more sense for you.
Don’t vet to much and only use what is an obvious pattern from the group and then move on.